After buying a new gravel bike and also owning a road bike, 90% of my maintenance is related to the chain and the gears. This type of system is approaching 100 years old now. I love seeing this type of innovation being discussed. I liked his phrase “not maintenance free, but maintenance friendly”.
Please keep electronics out of the bicycles. If it is needed to momentarily drop the torque, ok, but otherwise I am able to oil a cable or pull a lever.
I imagine that the oil change is also due to the breakdown of the oil. These oils are highly engineered but don't last forever. Under load the structure of the oil gradually degrades, necessitating an oil change.
I've never owned a derailleur bike and I probably never will (especially at my age). For predominantly city use, derailleurs don't seem to make a lot of sense to me. As for efficiency, since most of my cycling is in the "straight-through" middle gear, it isn't really a factor.
Just watch it 😅 Rohloff is close to derailleur efficiency but you have to spend a lot more. However, if you ride a lot it pays off in the long run. Much less chains to replace or get a belt anyway. I just sold my cargo bike (R&M Load 75) that had an Enviolo hub. Nothing really wrong with it but my next bike will have a Rohloff gear hub. It's just better mechanics and I expect many years of service out of it. I put 3000km on the Enviolo without any issues but I am not super confident about 10000km+
Ridiculous! 90% of the people I know who are interested in enclosed systems like Pinion and Rohloff say: Gripshift? Price? Uhmm, no rather not… Especially Rohloff did nothing over decades to create an electronic or mechanical shifting system, despite this was the most demanded upgrade potential customers screamed for.
let me elaborate: there are two kinds of "reliabilty" - one where you can service something fairly easily, very cost-effective and you can decide yourself whether you want to abuse the system more - or less ... - ... - .... and the other, where you have to beg the lord allah almighty on the cross that nothing ever gets wrong since a repair will be a huge burden in parts-availabilty, parts-accessability, finding someone who can fix it, and of course economically.
the first question of a real journalist would have been: how much does the system cost and what are the expected repair costs if something goes wrong. Instead of just sucking on their marketing agenda.
If Rohloff make hubs where I can take them apart and buy spare internals then I may be more convinced. For the majority of cyclists at the moment the cleaning comment at 18:06 is fair. However I immersive chain wax so it isn't such an issue. Watch the youtube ' zerofrictioncycling Episode 4 ' video . The price on IGH is also going to have to seriously reduce , and at least the current Shimano ones are reasonably affordable and can be dismantled with a bit of skill. The electronic shifting mentioned at 21:40 may be necessary ( or the easiest manufacturer solution ) but it potentially gives manufacturers unwanted control over their customers. In general I just don't agree with electronically controlling bike parts.
You do realise that 90% of the "recreational cyclists" take their bike to the bike shop to fix a flat or to tweak a shifter or whatever basic reasons even fix a seatpost. The Rohloff Speedhub piece it's not something you open randomly at your home while watching Netflix or listening to Spotify just because you can and to see what's inside... If it gets you throughout 10-15 years on average let's put it this way with the only maintenance required is that to change the oil every 5000km or every year whichever comes first still not convinced you... maybe it's not for you simply put which is fine. About the price... also you need to consider that this company has 45 employees compared to Shimano who has over 13.000 employees. 1200 euros invested in 10-15 years it's nothing compared to kids these days who wants the latest iphone and fancy gadgets which becomes obsolete in a few years alfter that. I know a few guys who changed their bikes 3-4 times and they still run the same Rohloff Speedhub for me that was enough "convincing".
@@martonattila6654 I don't expect the average person to take a Rohloff hub apart. The point is that they've taken that choice away and / or made it difficult . There is a general trend in manufacturing to do this which feeds into your theme of obsolescence. I would be interested to know what , if any - tradeoffs were made in making this decision. I am aware that the company is always going to be underdog to the likes of Shimano who can subsidise products to undercut competitors. Your low average cost over time is a valid point. I would think the high initial cost would be better absorbed by use in cargo rather than commuter bikes ? If you also get excellent customer service for the high initial cost then I don't mind paying for that. In the unlikely event of a product failure your going to need that.
@@martonattila6654 Apparently , despite what I thought , Rohloff hubs are easy to take apart according to ruclips.net/video/-4OmG8T7Uec/видео.html . That video does say that Rohloff doesn't make spare parts available which is the real issue. It certainly discourages people from disassembling the units. Please correct me if this is currently not the case.
@@dawn_rider Hey, yea that's right they do not make spare parts (for inside the hub) available to discourage people from opening it. It makes sense. Imagine what would've happen if everyone is able to open the unit for whatever reason because you can't cherry pick a group of "people" that are allowed to open it and others don't! If you as a company allow this to open the unit without void the warranty it will be for EVERYONE who owns the unit. Now, imagine the headache at Rohloff and customer service demand for the average peep who can't fix a flat but they opened the hub. Because it would certainly happen 100% and for that, Rohloff and their 45+ employees would need to address these issues all the time and they would not have time to create actually new units. It would be an absolute nightmare. I saw the video from your link years ago. Nothing against that guy but he treats his bicycle like absolute garbage he also has some videos with shimano alfine 8/11 I believe. Like I said earlier this company, Rohloff they are on the market for over 30 years and they are known for the very durable and high quality unit that they produce. They are the best in business when it comes to internal gear hub. Shimano with all that man power and financial power could make a rohloff on their own league but the problem it's that it would not match with their philosophy as a company meaning by selling as many units as possible. Just wouldn't happen. That's why there's alfine 8/11 for a fraction of the price and you get what you pay for. I'm from Romania and I live here in the second largest city from the country and there's literally 0 certified Rohloff bike shops, actually there's 0 in the whole country. The closest certified Rohloff bike shop to me is in Hungary - Budapest (the only one in Hungary) from where I buy tools/maintenance stuff. I spoke with multiple bike shops here in Romania why there is no certification for Rohloff? The all answered the same. It's not worth the trouble to go to Germany get apprenticeship (they have to teach you to their standards) and by the time you get home you only lace 1-2 Rohloffs in years. They are rare here. I'm not trying to convince you of anything but there's always and alternative Alfine 8/11 or 3X3 NINE gear hub also made in Germany, Pinion, Kindernay - a norvegian company (which I believe they went bankrupt) etc. For me Rohloff it's the top of the line when it comes to IGH and I like the company philosophy it's all made in Germany from the beginning it's hand tested hand made and the fact that 45 employees are working on some of the most advanced IGHs on the market it blows my mind.
@@martonattila6654 At least the disassembly instructions they do provide are detailed. I read the ' rohloff speedhub service gear-unit-replacement ' document. Your highlighted warranty headache does answer the 'tradeoff' question. Possibly, to sufficiently access the internals of the gear units you probably need a hydraulic press ? If they have used 'interference fits' to hold things together , at least nothing should work loose. I did note that Rohloff have designed the hub shell of the speedhub 500/14 so the oil drain screw can be screwed in too far ( easily fixed design flaw from their viewpoint ). I'll have to watch more video's from the 'treat bikes like garbage' guy. It's difficult to tell immeditely if these people have agendas e.t.c ( he's not on my subscription list ). The German cycling industry does seem to be quite active at the moment in niche areas / partnerships e.g. 'optimize bike' who make chain waxing products and Wipperman who make chains ( all in Germany ). Knowing my luck you'll be a fan of belt drive ! The Enviolo hubs seem the most promising in terms of ease of maintenance ? The gear ratio is controlled by friction between large steel balls. I get the impression that they are not as power efficient as a Rohloff hub and I think only have up to a 320% range ( The Rohloff 500/14 has almost double that ) . I've watched the cyclingabout YT channel videos on the various IGH's and have looked at the various manufacturer websites. The reliability of these things comes down to material selection , heat treatments , design tolerances e.t.c. , i.e. things hidden from the customer. This makes it difficult for consumers to make a choice. Here in the UK I have a better chance of getting a Rohloff hub fixed but I expect it will still be inconvenient ? Maybe a spare bike is the answer 🙂
For the four Rohloffs I have, I am not looking back with the Kindernay. Thought they were stepping it up. Great system for what it is and always has been.
After buying a new gravel bike and also owning a road bike, 90% of my maintenance is related to the chain and the gears. This type of system is approaching 100 years old now. I love seeing this type of innovation being discussed. I liked his phrase “not maintenance free, but maintenance friendly”.
I've actually created my own cad prototype of a split drive belt!
Very Nice Interview !😁
Please keep electronics out of the bicycles. If it is needed to momentarily drop the torque, ok, but otherwise I am able to oil a cable or pull a lever.
I imagine that the oil change is also due to the breakdown of the oil. These oils are highly engineered but don't last forever. Under load the structure of the oil gradually degrades, necessitating an oil change.
17:02 There is every other place to put ventilation. There is a fill-port in the hub shell for example.
I've never owned a derailleur bike and I probably never will (especially at my age). For predominantly city use, derailleurs don't seem to make a lot of sense to me. As for efficiency, since most of my cycling is in the "straight-through" middle gear, it isn't really a factor.
Still need to clean the chain and sprocket on a hub system!!
If you're looking for less maintenance go for the carbon fibre belt drive as described in depth.
Stuart should be cautious about thunderstorms. I can tell where the lightning is going to strike him.
Do they talk about efficiency in this interview?
Just watch it 😅
Rohloff is close to derailleur efficiency but you have to spend a lot more. However, if you ride a lot it pays off in the long run. Much less chains to replace or get a belt anyway. I just sold my cargo bike (R&M Load 75) that had an Enviolo hub. Nothing really wrong with it but my next bike will have a Rohloff gear hub. It's just better mechanics and I expect many years of service out of it. I put 3000km on the Enviolo without any issues but I am not super confident about 10000km+
@@lighthunter1980 He did not asked about financial efficiency..... over time.
Ridiculous! 90% of the people I know who are interested in enclosed systems like Pinion and Rohloff say: Gripshift? Price? Uhmm, no rather not…
Especially Rohloff did nothing over decades to create an electronic or mechanical shifting system, despite this was the most demanded upgrade potential customers screamed for.
When will they ever release rolhoff fatbike version for my surly big fat dummy
There is already a wide axle version for fat bikes 🤔
Rohloff used a proprietary system that they won't sell to anyone for their collaboration with Bosch. Rubs me the wrong way.
if a guy has 4 bikes , same wheel size , get a Rholoff and always use it. thow away 4 derailleurs
if Pinion was out one year before Rholoff there would only be 10 Speedhubs ever made and never hire an actual employee
buy a rohloff system and pray that nothing ever gets wrong with it itself, the wheel or the crank.
let me elaborate: there are two kinds of "reliabilty" - one where you can service something fairly easily, very cost-effective and you can decide yourself whether you want to abuse the system more - or less ... - ... - .... and the other, where you have to beg the lord allah almighty on the cross that nothing ever gets wrong since a repair will be a huge burden in parts-availabilty, parts-accessability, finding someone who can fix it, and of course economically.
the first question of a real journalist would have been: how much does the system cost and what are the expected repair costs if something goes wrong. Instead of just sucking on their marketing agenda.
If Rohloff make hubs where I can take them apart and buy spare internals then I may be more convinced. For the majority of cyclists at the moment the cleaning comment at 18:06 is fair. However I immersive chain wax so it isn't such an issue. Watch the youtube ' zerofrictioncycling Episode 4 ' video . The price on IGH is also going to have to seriously reduce , and at least the current Shimano ones are reasonably affordable and can be dismantled with a bit of skill. The electronic shifting mentioned at 21:40 may be necessary ( or the easiest manufacturer solution ) but it potentially gives manufacturers unwanted control over their customers. In general I just don't agree with electronically controlling bike parts.
You do realise that 90% of the "recreational cyclists" take their bike to the bike shop to fix a flat or to tweak a shifter or whatever basic reasons even fix a seatpost. The Rohloff Speedhub piece it's not something you open randomly at your home while watching Netflix or listening to Spotify just because you can and to see what's inside...
If it gets you throughout 10-15 years on average let's put it this way with the only maintenance required is that to change the oil every 5000km or every year whichever comes first still not convinced you... maybe it's not for you simply put which is fine.
About the price... also you need to consider that this company has 45 employees compared to Shimano who has over 13.000 employees. 1200 euros invested in 10-15 years it's nothing compared to kids these days who wants the latest iphone and fancy gadgets which becomes obsolete in a few years alfter that.
I know a few guys who changed their bikes 3-4 times and they still run the same Rohloff Speedhub for me that was enough "convincing".
@@martonattila6654 I don't expect the average person to take a Rohloff hub apart. The point is that they've taken that choice away and / or made it difficult . There is a general trend in manufacturing to do this which feeds into your theme of obsolescence. I would be interested to know what , if any - tradeoffs were made in making this decision.
I am aware that the company is always going to be underdog to the likes of Shimano who can subsidise products to undercut competitors.
Your low average cost over time is a valid point. I would think the high initial cost would be better absorbed by use in cargo rather than commuter bikes ? If you also get excellent customer service for the high initial cost then I don't mind paying for that. In the unlikely event of a product failure your going to need that.
@@martonattila6654 Apparently , despite what I thought , Rohloff hubs are easy to take apart according to ruclips.net/video/-4OmG8T7Uec/видео.html . That video does say that Rohloff doesn't make spare parts available which is the real issue. It certainly discourages people from disassembling the units. Please correct me if this is currently not the case.
@@dawn_rider Hey, yea that's right they do not make spare parts (for inside the hub) available to discourage people from opening it. It makes sense. Imagine what would've happen if everyone is able to open the unit for whatever reason because you can't cherry pick a group of "people" that are allowed to open it and others don't! If you as a company allow this to open the unit without void the warranty it will be for EVERYONE who owns the unit. Now, imagine the headache at Rohloff and customer service demand for the average peep who can't fix a flat but they opened the hub. Because it would certainly happen 100% and for that, Rohloff and their 45+ employees would need to address these issues all the time and they would not have time to create actually new units. It would be an absolute nightmare.
I saw the video from your link years ago. Nothing against that guy but he treats his bicycle like absolute garbage he also has some videos with shimano alfine 8/11 I believe.
Like I said earlier this company, Rohloff they are on the market for over 30 years and they are known for the very durable and high quality unit that they produce. They are the best in business when it comes to internal gear hub. Shimano with all that man power and financial power could make a rohloff on their own league but the problem it's that it would not match with their philosophy as a company meaning by selling as many units as possible. Just wouldn't happen. That's why there's alfine 8/11 for a fraction of the price and you get what you pay for.
I'm from Romania and I live here in the second largest city from the country and there's literally 0 certified Rohloff bike shops, actually there's 0 in the whole country. The closest certified Rohloff bike shop to me is in Hungary - Budapest (the only one in Hungary) from where I buy tools/maintenance stuff. I spoke with multiple bike shops here in Romania why there is no certification for Rohloff? The all answered the same. It's not worth the trouble to go to Germany get apprenticeship (they have to teach you to their standards) and by the time you get home you only lace 1-2 Rohloffs in years. They are rare here.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything but there's always and alternative Alfine 8/11 or 3X3 NINE gear hub also made in Germany, Pinion, Kindernay - a norvegian company (which I believe they went bankrupt) etc. For me Rohloff it's the top of the line when it comes to IGH and I like the company philosophy it's all made in Germany from the beginning it's hand tested hand made and the fact that 45 employees are working on some of the most advanced IGHs on the market it blows my mind.
@@martonattila6654 At least the disassembly instructions they do provide are detailed. I read the ' rohloff speedhub service gear-unit-replacement ' document. Your highlighted warranty headache does answer the 'tradeoff' question. Possibly, to sufficiently access the internals of the gear units you probably need a hydraulic press ? If they have used 'interference fits' to hold things together , at least nothing should work loose. I did note that Rohloff have designed the hub shell of the speedhub 500/14 so the oil drain screw can be screwed in too far ( easily fixed design flaw from their viewpoint ).
I'll have to watch more video's from the 'treat bikes like garbage' guy. It's difficult to tell immeditely if these people have agendas e.t.c ( he's not on my subscription list ).
The German cycling industry does seem to be quite active at the moment in niche areas / partnerships e.g. 'optimize bike' who make chain waxing products and Wipperman who make chains ( all in Germany ). Knowing my luck you'll be a fan of belt drive !
The Enviolo hubs seem the most promising in terms of ease of maintenance ? The gear ratio is controlled by friction between large steel balls. I get the impression that they are not as power efficient as a Rohloff hub and I think only have up to a 320% range ( The Rohloff 500/14 has almost double that ) . I've watched the cyclingabout YT channel videos on the various IGH's and have looked at the various manufacturer websites.
The reliability of these things comes down to material selection , heat treatments , design tolerances e.t.c. , i.e. things hidden from the customer. This makes it difficult for consumers to make a choice. Here in the UK I have a better chance of getting a Rohloff hub fixed but I expect it will still be inconvenient ? Maybe a spare bike is the answer 🙂
falling in love over there? get a room .
The Rohloff marketing manager would have a better marketing strategy to have bits of a hub gear piercing his face. Cringe.
For the four Rohloffs I have, I am not looking back with the Kindernay. Thought they were stepping it up.
Great system for what it is and always has been.
Piercings were fine. Guy seems interested in cycling.